Home > Community > Feature Requests > New Vehicles > Document: Biplanes. Three of them.
144 Comments - 66486 Views
Double the wings, double the fun...
Submitted By _ACE_ on 13/02/19
Mars Explorer, _ACE_, Feature Requests, New Vehicles 

***Play demo...***
 
**CRITISISM NEEDED**
 
Here's how it would work:
  • It's less prone to stalling than the jet, with higher acceleration, but a much lower top speed. As in, with everything maxed out, it shouldn't be faster than 300 mph. A default would be about 250 max.
  • It should have a higher firepower. The cost here is that the visibility is fairly poor - not dreadful. It's like trying to shoot backwards out of the hovercraft
  • It has a set of undercarriage, with wheels, meaning you need a fairly flat area to take off from.
  • It's powered by two rocket/jet thingies. Same effect as the hovercraft and jet
All in all, I'm kind of suggesting the aerial version of the tank. :P
 
Oh, and the thrust shouldn't be enough to power it vertically upwards. So this would be a non-noober, hopefully. It should have enough momentum to fly vertically up for a bit, but not enough thrust to accelerate off up into the unknown.
 
If anyone wants the model files, I'm happy to share them, as long as you don't copy the designs or claim them to be your own, and give credit if you use them anywhere. Just drop me a PM. ;)
 
UPDATE_5_____
PA suggested thinking out of the box when it came to vehicle design, on the skype group. I think I took it too far.
This is the most original plane I've ever made. Inspired by... well everything, flight-capable or not. (Even a bit of F1 in it). And it will have retracting undercarriage, eventually.
My futuristic biplane ;)
Top
Front
 Side
 
UPDATE_4_____
I finally got around to adding gear to the smaller one. I think the huge wheel pants look cute on it. :3
 
3d view
Side ortho - with a slight rendering error in unity 2, fixed in unity 3
Front ortho
Top ortho
 
And by the time you're reading this, a new demo should have been uploaded to demo it. ;)
 
UPDATE_3.1____
 
And, the newer main undercarriage. Based on the Westland Lysander, it has massive wheel pants. The wheels shown are placeholders until I get around to making some new tyres.
Better? I think so
No tail wheels yet...
 
And by request from PA:
Top
Side
Front
 
(Below is the older wheels:)
 
Also, a couple of shots I took while messing with unity (:D)
 
Flyin' machines
 
UPDATE_2____
 
Got the single to look nice now. Allz goin' good. Whatcha think?
I think they need more vents and intakes, like the jet... but I'm open to other suggestions.
 
Please, don't copy the designs. I'm happy to share the 3d models, but only to those who ask - preferably via PM.
Now I'mma stick a nice big © _ACE_ on 'em. Yup. That means no duplicating.
 
Front end view
Look closely, under the nose there is an air intake. Please ignore the bad texture mapping, I'm trying to fix it.
Top-down ortho view
 
UPDATE____
 
More piccys of the twin, now featuring updated front ends. The single is next to get a nicer front end and importation into Unity.
The original jet is there for scale comparison. They're in the Sky Monster (just 'cause).
 
Any ideas on how to improve it?
 
There are 684 polys now. I ran a smooth on it. Then triangulated it. It's over double the original value. I think.
Dem flyin' machines
 
 
 
ORIGINAL____
 
NOTE: Large changes have been made since these photos. These are just here for ol' times' sake.
 
3/4-ish view
Business end. Note the thrusters... ;)
Need more piccys? Holler.

» Comment on Document (Too Many Replies for Fancy Display) 144 Comments
11 hours - 1,145v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 16:15 GMT
This would be awesome!  How would the gameplay be?  Like the buggy + jet?
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 16:15 GMT
http://plexpedia.com/view-id-7626-c-67996

For now, I prefer that biplane, but I bring good news too :)

Maybe streamline the front end and make It with a single fuselage running down the middle
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 16:38 GMT
You suggesting a third fuselage? Or just joining the two into one?
 
Yah. I guess my problem with the other one is that it's a scale model, for our past. Would we put, say, a Yak 9-d or a BAe Nimrod in Mars? Although if someone wanted to make a mod for ancient planes, that's good.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 16:47 GMT
Updated description for more info.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 16:54 GMT
Thanks. ^^
 
More like a flying tank. It's fairly large, and whilst maneuverable, wouldn't have the oomph to really fly fast - maybe 150-200kph, max. So, it would be more like buggy vs tank, except jet vs bipe.
4 days - 13,880v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 18:04 GMT
Needs more pollies. And dragons.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 18:06 GMT
Pollies? *squawk*
 
Adding parrots now...
 
Srsly, the tank has about this many. It's just smoothed. This will be too.
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 18:43 GMT
Comment WIN lol

ACE, I mean converting to one, single, center fuselage
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 18:59 GMT
Aww, but that's boring...
 
Nevertheless, I'll try it and post piccys. ;)
4 days - 13,880v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 19:16 GMT
The tank isn't NEARLY this complex. Therefore, the polly count should be way higher.
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 19:46 GMT
i would say "so a single fuselage like this?" if mars would let be upload the photo.. and now it will let me... soo grr
 
anyway im still missing a few parts, but other wise its mostly done(not stealing your thunder) just saying single fuselage like this?
 
 top view
back
angled side photo
front, still need to make the prop
side photo
different angle
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 20:08 GMT
Tank polys : 368 + tracks
Bipe polys : 328 (at the moment)
 
Exactly where should I add polygons? The wings are meant to be flat....
 
Edit: Now 684 polys - happy?
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 20:12 GMT
How big does a prop need to be to work on mars? Massive. Yours is gonna be cuttin some proverbial grass - if you follow my meaning.
 
Propellors, in my view, don't suit Mars. Contra-props, mebbe.
 
And why, oh why, does everyone except me love the P-47 fuselage shape? *headesk*
 
My point about all these prop-drive bipes is that they don't fit in Mars. Mars we have jets and electromagnetic thingomes. Not pre-ww1 tech.
 
(Except contra-props)
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 20:17 GMT
Seb
One possible improvement
Could you take off the maw of the front face of your plane, slim it down and make it circular?
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 20:30 GMT
ie, stop it from looking like a goddarned P-47
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 20:34 GMT
could do... looks about doing it
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 20:38 GMT
Eh? 'Looks about doing it?'
 
I don't understand. :(
4 days - 13,880v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 20:43 GMT
Everwhere needs more pollies to make it smoother. Just using the "smooth" feature will turn it into a blob with that number of pollies!
2 days - 11,431v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 20:57 GMT
Blender!!!!

Maybe a little subdivision surface? Or make it soft with an edge split modifier.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 21:02 GMT
 could run a subdiv smooth on it, but only once I'm happy with the shape and I've applied the mirror. Otherwise it gets... messy.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 21:03 GMT
Subdiv smooth. ;)
 
But I leik mah pollies....
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/19 - 23:23 GMT
and there we go, remake of biplane :P
 
:P
back
diff angle
side
front
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 1:31 GMT
That's really sweet. I don't know weather I like Macdane's or yours more O_O
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 1:54 GMT
the only problem is that i want a biplane, and a hydrofoil boat to drive around on mars, after making these two
 
tis 1.6 long, by 2.7 wide..... so its a bit longer than the buggy, and almost 3 times as wide(due to the wings)
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 4:20 GMT
a top speed of about 250mph would be better, as you can fly the buggy at 150mph... with out too much trouble
2 days - 6,069v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 5:57 GMT
_ACE_, 
 
So far, this model is looking very nice- very good work! I can definitely invision this vehicle being a part of Mars Explorer 3.0. If you are looking into developing this into an actual custom vehicle for Mars Explorer, I would suggest that you and Seb discuss whether or not it should be implemented into the Hydrofoil. If it is agreed upon that it should not (which is what I personally assume will happen), I suggest developing it into its own vehicle. At that point, you can send it to me or anyone else who knows JavaScript in order for them to develop a Mars Explorer specific script for the vehicle. After that, you send it (with the script) to Flyclub (the reason that the script was written was to make things easy on Flyclub), and hope that he has the time to implement the vehicle into the game.
 
I can help you with this if you need/want help.
 
Sincerely,
Apophis
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 6:03 GMT
need's to download free trail version of sketchup pro... after i do that, how do i get hold of you to give you a file, that blender/ and unity for that matter can read?
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 9:18 GMT
*ahem*
I have been using unityscript for three years now. I am perfectly capable of writing my own script, thanks.
And Fly will probbo want it in C# anyways, with which I hhave a little less experience, but not by much. Just so yah know. ;)
 
Thanks for offering help though. ^^
 
I think it's not gonna end up being a hydrofoil. After all, that would probably make it too hard for other players, having an opponent that's good in the air and on water... two separate vehicles make more sense. And seb disagreed with me when I suggested it... :P
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 9:19 GMT
Any chance you could make this its own thread? Sorry to bother yous.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 9:27 GMT
Still trying to force myself not to turn it into a 10-300. That's where the awful nose come from. I'm working on the nose next...
 
To me, this looks old and boring. Imma go work on the current twin for now, unless this is a smash hit.
Like dis?
The cockpit is just about visible...
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 9:31 GMT
Blender can import .3ds, so if you can export thet, you're good.
 
Or you can just model in Blender. Unity imports .blend happily. ;)
 
Oh, if you just want to get it in Unity, you can export to a .jas I think. Unity reads those.
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 9:44 GMT
yea i can make it in its on thread, sort of pointless having two posts with a similar idea though(well on second thought i might just add it in with the hydrofoil post).... and if i was going to export it, it would be on a .obj file.. out of sketchup pro....
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 10:14 GMT
:D Blender can happily import .obj files, so you're good.
 
Yah, I'm just worried about threadjacking and confuzzlement... I don't mind if you want to move though.
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 10:37 GMT
nah ill move it at some stage tomorrow.... 
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 14:13 GMT
Also, (since it's here :P ), to make it maneuverable even in the Earth's relatively dense atmosphere, you'd need fairly large tail surfaces - especially the vertical stabs. The lower vertical stab is gonna get in the way a little when landing.
 
I'd have made the tail feathers larger longditudinally, possibly with a smaller span, and the vertical ones a bit taller too. The lower one could use a skid or wheel of sorts.
 
However, it's not my model, and it could affect the overall effect that you're aiming for. I dunno. Just my two cents.
 
Yours is much closer to being finished than mine xD. Me likey dem contra-props.
5 days - 10,809v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 17:58 GMT
I personally really like this idea. I do prefer the single body one though because...... wait is this designed for 2 people to fly?
Anyway. Though the double bodied one is cool, I still like the other one better. But I do think you should drop the bottom set of wings more like this:Then when in the water it could run as a hydrofoil but with it's propeller/thruster thing out if the water, or mostly out anyway.
Once again, I really like this idea :D
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 18:20 GMT
Nope. Have a lookie at the P-38. One person, two fuses. However, I appreciate your choice. ;)
 
As I said to Achilles, it probably won't be hydrofoil as well... but there's always the chance. And if you look, the wing is fairly low - just low enough for the water to clear the fuselage bottom at the front.
 
Glad you like them. Imma workin' on 'em right now!
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 19:57 GMT
no, i cant change any surface with out making it look wrong.... just looks soo right the way it is... i might add a small wheel at the back... but the lower fin is there to also be used as a skid
 
and yea.... im basicly done.... other that paint(maybe a small wheel) and exporting it out of Sketchup... its too hard to add anything/change anything else
 
the cube, is 1m, by 1m, by 1m (i.e the size of the buggy)
 
EDIT: now with wheel, it's sitting level on it's wheels, back fin it clear from the ground
 
back wheel added
 
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/20 - 20:37 GMT
Ok.
 
Awesome. :D
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/21 - 10:53 GMT
^^ Updated again. More pictures. ^^
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/21 - 16:04 GMT
This could look way better as a swept wing monoplane? Ideas?
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/21 - 16:12 GMT
We already have a swept-wing monoplane. Called the jet. ;)
 
Although.... if you mean just strap a single wing to the twin-fuselage one... I'll give it a go.
 
*sigh* why do all of your suggestions involve a complete re-model of the entire aircraft? >:/ I joke, I like completely rebuilding it. :D
 
Should I still finalize the single one then?
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/21 - 16:21 GMT
Do what you think looks the best :)
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/21 - 16:24 GMT
Ok.
 
I'm gonna model several different variations on this type of aircraft, and see which one is the most popular. After all, there is the sort of 'motherly love' between me and mah models, so I wouldn't notice if they're all horrendously ugly. :D
... wait, are they? xD
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/22 - 11:30 GMT
... Again, an update. ;)
2 days - 11,431v
Posted 2013/02/22 - 15:13 GMT
Nice! It's softened now. Can't tell what other modifiers make that look BEAUTIFUL :D

GREAT! And what modifiers did you use btw? :P
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/22 - 15:41 GMT
Used the mirror modifier on both. That's it.
 
I also selected the whole thing, before I added the cockpits and other gumf, and hit w->subdiv smooth, and then triangulated the whole mesh... IDK. Lol.
 
Thanks. :D
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/22 - 17:33 GMT
The double hull biplane looks sick from above :)
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/22 - 18:03 GMT
Sick as in good, I'm guessing. Thanks. :D I lengthened it a bit.
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/25 - 23:58 GMT
So....AMAZING!!!!
 

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

 
This is what I have been dreaming of ;')
 
Can you make the bigger biplane a two-seater? 
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/26 - 10:28 GMT
... *isn't sure how to respond*
 
Thank you!
 
I can. I'm not sure how to arrange the cockpits - tandem, side-by-side or one on each fuslage? I'll have a play and post whatever looks any good.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 31,378v
Posted 2013/02/26 - 14:32 GMT
It's fun :D It has the right amount of air drag and speed! It's amazin
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/26 - 15:16 GMT
Everything is calulated in real-time, so it should be correct (and I didn't use any reference for the physics formulea, me proud :D).
 
Thank you! ^^
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/26 - 18:00 GMT
I love it. The drag and everything are wonderful, and it's really manoeuvrable.
 
Nice job.
 
Also, nice site.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 13,880v
Posted 2013/02/26 - 19:20 GMT
Still could use some more pollies... Everything looks stretched.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/26 - 19:21 GMT
... which one? The bigger one is meant to be less maneuverable. Thanks anyways! Clearly making the demo was an evening well spent! :D
 
Oh, no, no *headdesk* Tell me you didn't look around it? xD Last updated sometime two years ago. xD Lawl.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/26 - 19:23 GMT
Really? Hold on a second or so, and I'll post pictures proving there are thousands of verts down the side. You might be referring to the texture mapping, which might have the effect of making it look slightly stretched. But, in my view, the poly count is maxed out. I don't want to increse it for fear of lag.
 
Side view of the single. Note the poly area is roughly the same along the whole length
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 13,880v
Posted 2013/02/26 - 21:34 GMT
Fear of lag-

Oh wait. I forgot everyone that plays this game plays it on potatoes. Or apples. 
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/26 - 21:42 GMT
Cre and my brother play it on pre-2005 macs. Optimization, anyone?
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/26 - 22:50 GMT
I like the smaller one, it is more manoeuvrable, but the big one is also more manoeuvrable than the jet. They don't accelerate too fast too soon. I like that.
 
Couldn't resist poking around.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/26 - 23:22 GMT
Try the jet. The turning circle is larger, I'll grant you, with the jet. But that's because ou get more lift from twin wings. The roll rate is still much lower. I'm glad you like it though. :D
 
... yeah. xD
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
17 hours - 2,066v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 0:45 GMT
I am a fan, though I don't know who would use these inside the game, since the Jet is faster and more maneuverable.  But I really do like how the biplanes have different levels of control and speed.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 1:01 GMT
Yeah. I guess it's a little like the hovercraft. In theory, useful, but in practice, we have better vehicles. Although, the biplanes do have a smaller turning circle, and lower speed makes shooting ground targets easier.
 
Thank you so much. ^^
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 1:45 GMT
Who can dream up a way for biplanes to be a match for jets
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 13,880v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 2:24 GMT
Kill the jet, then. Everyone yells "JET NOOB BAN BAN BANBANBANBAN" when ever someone uses it.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
8 hours - 855v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 3:37 GMT
It's really good, the only thing is the bigger twin one should be a bit faster, have more firpower, but be slightly less manouverable.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 7:32 GMT
It is less maneuverable. And it would have a higher firepower.
 
I'll make it a little faster.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 7:34 GMT
Turning circle. You can out-turn the jet
And jets, while in flight mode, would have a hard time hitting it. Ever tried hitting a flying buggy with a jet? It's not easy.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
8 hours - 855v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 10:31 GMT
Also they should have a landing gear.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 11:01 GMT
What do you think I'm working on? *sigh*
 
Yes. Yes they should.
 
Please, try not to be so short.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 14:50 GMT
Ace, I dressed this like of space bar abilities for vehicles:
All vehicles should have a space bar ability:
Buggy: wings
Jet: landing gear hover
Hovercraft: grapple hook/ steering
Tank: sticky treads
Helicopter: Loading hook (transport)
Boat: Hydrofoils (more sped less agility)
Sub: Minimap cloaking
Biplane: Cluster Lazers: Lazers that hit a collider and explode into more Lazers

I think the biplane should have a wheeled landing gear, or skids instead of a hover
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 16:02 GMT
I was thinking more that the space bar would deploy the gear, but I can wangle it so that the gear are always down.
 
Skids are... cool. But not useful if you're spawned the wrong way around, as there's no way to turn quickly.
I'm gonna try a few different setups for u/c. The problem with wheels is the rough terrain would effectively disable takeoff. So, It might be difficult to come up with an elegant solution that works.
 
Hovercraft. Grapple hooks. That's awesome.
 
BTW, is there a sub model already in circulation that's set for Mars? I can't find anything except for a few very old threads. (Olim's, for example)
I know seb's working on a helicopter... guess you do too.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
3 days - 9,600v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 18:47 GMT
Wow!! That is amazing!
 
Question, though: Would the Bi-Plane shoot two lasers instead of one? If so, would it be possible to do so? 
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 19:11 GMT
Thanks! Glad you like 'em. ^^
 
Hmm. In theory, yes, it is possible. I suppose you mean the bigger (twin-fuselage) one only?
Do you mean alternating (like, one-two-one-two) or at the same time?
Do you want me to write it into into the demo, so you can try it out?
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
6 days - 11,359v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 20:14 GMT
Love it!!
I especially like the back ends heheh...
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 20:25 GMT
... *facepalm* I saw that coming. xD
 
Thanks...
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
8 hours - 855v
Posted 2013/02/27 - 23:01 GMT
What about a hover/skid hybrid? Instead of it making the plane go up and down it would make it go forwards and back. The hover would make easy work of the terrain.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
30 minutes - 102v
Posted 2013/02/28 - 4:33 GMT
Holy s...this is awesome !
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/28 - 8:21 GMT
Hmm. That's pretty much what we have in the hovercraft. So, nah, I'd rather go with something more... original.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/28 - 8:23 GMT
Thanks
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/02/28 - 16:01 GMT
Olim's Sub and Etah's Sub are the possibilities
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/02/28 - 17:08 GMT
... Ok, I haven't seen Etah's. I'll go look for it now.
 
Annndd.... it's amazing. xD
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
8 hours - 855v
Posted 2013/03/01 - 1:31 GMT
Will the subs zoom be like a periscope, that when you press the scope button it goes up and vice versa, so if you go near the surface you can see clearly without being easily detected.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
23 hours - 2,065v
Posted 2013/03/01 - 5:15 GMT
It looks awesome (I love the bigger version) but one thing we really don't need is another jet.  The main problem with the jet is that it is possible to gain unlimited speed and altitude with ease.  Yes, it is possible to gain unlimited altiutude with buggy, but it is difficult.  It takes a huge runway to start, and then lots of swooping to get higher and higher.  Jets can simply hold 1 finger and keep the quarry away from everyone forever.  This remains a problem today, although it seems jet noobing has decreased in popularity.  We need a limiting mechanism for vehicles like the Jet, and the biplane.  Perhaps the rockets could overheat when used too much?
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/01 - 9:03 GMT
Thanks. :D
 
I agree with you completely - we certainly don't need another jet-noob-capable craft. At the moment, my simulation is missing several key components. For instance, the thrust actually increases as speed decreases (because thrust = power/velocity) which I'm going to change.
 
I was thinking more that the main power plant would be a form of subsonic ramjet, meaning that as the speed falls off in a climb the engine would begin to die. Also, I'm decreasing the speed to around 200mph for both of them, which would hopefully even it out against the buggy.
 
Rocket overheat is a good idea though. I'll think about implementing that instead.
 
Also, it currently takes off very quickly because I'm adding a large pulsed force at the start. In the final version, it will need a short takeoff strip (about the same length as the buggy needs) to lift off.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 20,797v
Posted 2013/03/02 - 0:28 GMT
I like both of them, but I prefer the smaller one to the bigger one.
I made a post about limiting the distance you could go with quarry, it running around on this forum somewhere.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
23 hours - 2,956v
Posted 2013/03/02 - 1:14 GMT
I love it. they're easier to fly!
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/02 - 12:55 GMT
Thanks, although I personally think the bigger one's the better one. It's less similar to the current jet.
 
Yeah. I read your post. But, having the plane stall out acutally looks pretty cool (the upload of the new version will hopefully happen today, if I get off my lazy a**, and it has this as a feature) and leads to skill being more necessary. And anyways, if someone tried to jet noob in this, the jet would outperform it in the speed department and so would be able to bring the quarry back.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/02 - 12:57 GMT
Hmm. That's because the much increased wing area gives it much more lift, meaning the centripetal force when you turn is far greater. In the essence, you should have a smaller turning circle and less of a tendecy to stall. :P
 
When my update is uploaded it will be harder, as the stalling speed is now much higher.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/08 - 9:14 GMT
I have (finally) chosen a system for the undercarriage. I'm not sure how well it will work, so if you have any views please share them.
 
It would be like this plane's:
Having seen a cub in the flesh a few days ago, I know this system looks nice and works well. Also, the 'twin cub' shown here shares a design feature of my biplane - twin fuselages. I'm gonna fit a system similar to the one shown above on mine, and see how it goes.
 
I'll update the pictures soon as well, as I've made some sligh adjustments to the craft.
 
Thanks for almost 3000 views!!!
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 24,177v
Posted 2013/03/08 - 14:30 GMT
I love this.
 
This could mean a whole new realm of gameplay for this game. I mean... wow.
 
Nice work, ACE.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/08 - 16:31 GMT
Thanks! ^^
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/13 - 10:52 GMT
Updated again.
 
The undercarriage design that's currently shown isn't final, unless it's really popular. I'm going to change to a more 'strut-like' appearance.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/03/13 - 15:03 GMT
I LOVE those new screenshots.

Undercarriage does however need work ie: slimmer, more aerodynamic.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/13 - 15:06 GMT
Mmhmm. I'm a little unfamiliar with undercarriage design (all my r/c models have bent piano wire xD).
 
Thanks for your input, I'll fix it asap.
 
Edit: There's a newer version now. I think it's more what you were looking for.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
3 days - 8,344v
Posted 2013/03/14 - 2:20 GMT
Wouldn't there be some large blind spots while flying a biplane?
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/14 - 9:37 GMT
Yeah, there are a few. Try the demo - if you hold alt, you can be inside it. The bigger one, as you will see, has better visibility.
 
It's mainly clear ahead, and to the left and right, but the tailfins do block rear vis a bit. Also, the wings get in the way (as they do on the jet).
 
Also, other people would be able to use these blind areas to their advantage.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
39 minutes - 62v
Posted 2013/03/14 - 23:54 GMT
I really like it. please put it in! 
 
note for the future: could you put in a motorcycle?
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/15 - 10:33 GMT
I have no control over whether it gets into future versions of Mars. But, I obviously would like it to become one of our vehicles.
 
The motorcycle I believe you're referring to is Seb's. Again, I cannot control whether it gets in, but I hope it does.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/03/16 - 22:33 GMT
Do you want this game to be a realistic educational game for space exploration (Aubrey's goal) or a fun game with too much misc stuff?
 
I would like to keep it realistic as possible.
 
Biplanes in Unity Island and other Earth maps, but not in Mars.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/03/16 - 23:42 GMT
Meh. That requires either re-exporting all maps with built in world "type" identifiers or for Flynn to code them in. Since when is mars realistic? We even have earth gravity! Even on "the MOON" world
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/17 - 10:28 GMT
I thought you declared that you didn't play this game anymore?

Anyways. On Mars, the atmosphere is far less dense. Thus, a larger wing area is needed to counteract gravity. So, a biplane actually makes more sense than our beloved jet.

Also... as a sim, Mars has already failed. The gravity is earth's, the air density is earth's, and the buggy is 1x1x1m in size. Just for starters.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/03/24 - 19:05 GMT
Can the single engine have the cockpit forward of the wings? Visibility is god awful when you press alt back there. The big one is little better, but manageable to fly with.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/24 - 19:50 GMT
It looked dreadful when I put it there... I would show the screenshot, but I've lost my screenshot folder right now... :(
 
I'll re-do it, but like I said, it looked awful.
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Try making the cockpit like that, out front
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/03/24 - 21:17 GMT
 
GOOD NEWS!
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/24 - 21:27 GMT
A dragon rapide? Yes? About it?
 
The single having a front-end cockpit would look more like 
and F-8, the ugliest jet fighter ever imho.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/03/30 - 17:31 GMT
Could we have a "side" and "front" picture of the biplanes square to the "camera"
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/30 - 20:18 GMT
Shure. Will upload asap tonight.
 
*EDIT* Tell me if you need more.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/03/30 - 23:23 GMT
The side profile looks like a stretched hovercraft with wings lol 
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
17 hours - 2,066v
Posted 2013/03/31 - 1:55 GMT
Not going to lie, I absolutely LOVE the handling on the Small Biplane, and the Large Biplane definitely feels like a lumbering giant that can barely generate the lift.  Definitely would be interesting to dogfight in those things, or to race them around.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/03/31 - 8:35 GMT
Uploaded corrected demo, I think the handling's improved on both aircraft. :D
 
The smaller one takes a lonnng time to lift off.. sorry 'bout that, I think it's something with levitashia, but I think I can fix it soon.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 hour - 149v
Posted 2013/04/01 - 12:10 GMT
Cant wait for it to be out in the game!
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/01 - 12:16 GMT
No guarantee of that... but thanks.
40 minutes - 32v
Posted 2013/04/02 - 20:11 GMT
when will this be added to the game
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/03 - 7:28 GMT
The question is, will it? And the answer is, I have no idea. You could ask PanzerAce, I guess. But there's a poll running at the moment that will choose the new biplane, and both of these planes are in it. Only time will tell it they win or not. And there's some serious competition.
 
If it does win, it should be in one of the Mars 3 builds at some point - I'd heard that would be around summer, but with flyclub's absense, that might not happen.
 
So, the answer is.. probably by the end of the year, if ever. Otherwise, we'll be using seb's and probably forget I ever made these. ;)
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/03 - 14:02 GMT
ACE's single fuselage Biplane is currently winning with 45% of popular vote in one survey and 33% in the other.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/03 - 14:05 GMT
Sheesh... didn't think it'd be that popular! :O
 
Though the single's not my favourite. Lol.
 
Edit: Added demo including new graphics and improved physics. ;)
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/05 - 2:11 GMT
Hello All, I am having some fun with this right now:
 
Try accelerating out until you reach 120 mph while pressing E. Then, press Q instead and try to land the small biplane level on the sky king and stop before fallling off. This requires planning ;)
 
Note: try to make it a real landing, not just stalling downwards.
 
Also, try barnstorming the sky shark :D
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/05 - 9:03 GMT
Better:
 
Accelerate out, turn around and go back into the area where you start. To the far left is a hallway, shaped like a mirrored D. Yes, it is possible to go the whole way through it. Just not easy.
See how fast you can do it without crashing. I've done 190mph.
 
Also, coming soon - added yawing. Uplaoding the updated project as I speak, so it should be ready by the time you read this.
 
....and now it's finished uploading. Happy hammerheadin'!
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/06 - 13:10 GMT
Added a new ...sillhouette. It's still taking minor modifications, but I should have a new picture up by the end of today.
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/07 - 0:18 GMT
The new one is really sweet! Who cares if it would actually fly xD
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Re: Biplanes, now with playable demo!
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/07 - 10:57 GMT
It would. That's the thing. It would just need a computer control system to keep it stable ;)
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
1 week - 20,797v
Posted 2013/04/07 - 16:38 GMT
Did anyone else notice that the above view of the new bi-plane looks like a face? >_> lol
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/08 - 19:00 GMT
I did xD
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/08 - 21:49 GMT
*admits*
I didn't. xD But it made me laugh when you pointed it out xD.
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
1 day - 5,467v
Posted 2013/04/17 - 19:52 GMT
I love this biplane. It's delicious (lol). And I LOVE flying it upside down. It's like a jet, just I actually like it o_O
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/17 - 20:06 GMT
Which one? There's three...
 
Glad you like it though :D
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/18 - 0:53 GMT
I love the small biplane! Great work on these :)
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/18 - 10:32 GMT
Thanks :D
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/18 - 23:55 GMT
Is the mega biplnae getting put in the demo?
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/19 - 8:46 GMT
geez, I thought I'd done that. I'll upload the build asap, hopefully later today.
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
1 hour - 149v
Posted 2013/04/21 - 13:09 GMT
You know, now since we have WWI planes, and modern jets, I wonder if wee can have some WWII planes?
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/21 - 13:13 GMT
WWI planes? Come again?
 
The first two are modelled after a very modern plane, the Ultimate 10-300. I made them SPECIFICALLY to avoid having WWI planes in Mars. So thanks, but I'm taking that as an insult.
 
As for WWII planes - the jet is perfectly capable imho. No need for them.
 
@everyone else, the mega-biplane is on its way. The build will be uploaded asap, that is, today.
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/21 - 18:10 GMT
As the saying goes for race cars and aeroplanes: "If it looks right, it IS right."

I'm sorry to say that the dual-fuselage models don't look right to me and I can't offer useful suggestions for improvement. And, a biplane with the fuselage profile of an 80's Cessna (prop cone) just doesn't excite me. I think that more mild modifications of existing IRL planes might be a better choice.

re: easy handling - Easy is often overrated. One must work and practice to master our existing jet because it actually stalls as real jets actually do. I feel that's a good thing. However, it might be useful to add a "Beginner" server setting for any flying vehicle for future games.
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/21 - 19:07 GMT
When it comes to model (and probably real) aircraft we say 'If it looks right, it'll fly right.' And I guess that's just your taste then - and since you actually requested the russian WW1 fighter, I guess that our views on aircraft design just don't match up.
 
However - prop cone? I don't see a prop cone... sorry... maybe it's just the underslung air intake. I can move the air intakes back to an alternate position, which would leave the nose cone on its own. If you must have that.
 
The handling on the latest plane is probably more to your liking - however, IRL, biplanes DO handle much better (slowest-flying aircraft in the world is a russian biplane, capable of speeds down to 40mph, and also, they generate more lift so forcing the angle of attack to a stall angle is really hard).
 
If you want the code to inspect, I'm happy to send it to you. You'd see it's all done with real-world physics, with the exception of an anti-sideslip hack that I put in to prevent tip stalling, and that's only one line that I can disable if you want to test the handling without it.
 
Our existing jet does stall at the real-world angle. But IRL, knife-edging (when the aircraft flies with the wings vertical, and the fuselage provides all the lift... we do it a lot as an RC aerobatic maneuver) isn't as easy as is shown in Mars, and I modified my code to match the jet's lack of sideslip. As I said before, if you want to try flying without the anti-tip-stall code, I can set a demo up very quickly.
 
Thanks for your comment.
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/22 - 2:46 GMT
For arguement's sake. ;)
 
These airplanes have a lower stall speeds. (Prop wash FTW)
 
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/Vought-XF5U.html
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/22 - 7:48 GMT
Actually, if you want to argue the point, you are correct in that the slowest aircraft is actually a monoplane (stall speed 30mph) - however, a very close second place is the AN-2 which is a much larger, heavier aircraft that, if it were a monoplane, would fly much faster.
 
In general, if you strap an extra wing to a plane, it will fly slower and 'bank-and-yank' faster. Simple aerodynamics - if you generate more lift then during a turn the centrepital force will be higher. When you change the AoA on a biplane, the lift increases far more dramatically. Although when you hit the stall speed in a biplane, it really does go.
 
XF5U never flew afaik so you can't claim that is a slower flyer. And also prop wash increases the air speed over the aircraft's wing, thus increasing the actual airspeed - so it's not flying slowly. If you measure ground speed it is, but aircraft can have negative ground speed so measuring it is fairly pointless imho.
 
So yes - it is possible to make an ultralight fly slower than a biplane, but as a rule of thumb, single-wings fly faster than double-wings. And the handling can be PROVEN to be better, although if you want that, I'll PM it to avoid clogging this page.
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/22 - 21:21 GMT
Both sayings have the same general meaning, yes?

re prop cone - My bad. I hallucinated a prop cone given it's profile in photo 6th from top.

re handling - Please work with me in taking my meaning rather than picking it apart? The details of what is or isn't IRL handling are less important to me than trusting that all vehicles carry with them a certain amount of realism and some challenge to operate. And besides, debating the flight characteristics of a biplane without mentioning that it's destined to be jet-powered seems futile to me. How about: A biplane would be nice with handling and performance that resembles a WWI rig from any country of manufacture? A slow-ish plane could potentially bring back the need for increased game strategy (use of terrain for laser protection) that some of us miss from 1.9. And, we're not talking Syn3h here so, I'll give to you that Aubrey's intentions for "an accurate representation of WWI biplane flight characteristics (in Syn3h)" are unfortunately not applicable.

_ACE_ - I am confused that you thanked me for my comment after semi-politely tried to refute and/or correct each of my points (and now Panzer's). I don't, however, request an explanation. Please see "criticism needed" I complied as best I could.
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/23 - 8:47 GMT
Indeed, they do.
 
Sorry if I seemed to 'pick your comment apart' - thing is, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'nice handling' - although lowering the speed is definitely a good idea. The speed was raised a while back, by request, so that it didn't fly as slow as the buggy - thinking about it now, especially given your comment, flying as slow as the buggy could be a good thing.
 
It seems you want the handling to be a little more difficult...  one way of doing that would be to reenable sideways 'sliding' in mid-air, which would make it more difficult to fly and give it a certain uniqueness from the jet. I'll fiddle with a 'tuned' version of the smaller biplane for you and upload it later.
 
Apologies, again, for being less than polite earlier. Although, for Panzer's, see 'For argu(e)ment's sake'.
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/23 - 12:43 GMT
For reference, and to understand what it is that I believe would augment gameplay strategy via a biplane:
In 1.9, the buggy drove and flew very slowly. It was nearly impossible to dodge lasers in a buggy. The main method for survival other than launching from a glitch was to duck behind a hill or even plan your flight path so, once you got your quarry, your escape route included getting behind that hill as soon as possible. When the faster and faster buggy versions were released, we were mostly thrilled. However, the speed removed the need for this hill strategy. That need to get behind a hill or below your opponent (no Gyride back then) to dodge lasers was replaced with tapping your space bar to zigzag and the Bee-Fight was born. So, if one's maneuverability and speed are reduced (via a naturally slow vehicle like a biplane), one's cunning must come into play. Also, there's a romantic/dramatic/funky/stylish vibe to vintage biplanes that is completely different than slick, modern-looking planes. In summary, I desire a biplane for it's style and to reintroduce the need for strategy via lower overall performance. Summarized even more: The less your vehicle does for you, the more you must do. I hope that helps.

It's also worth noting that a setting for vehicle-pointed lasers with mouse/trackpad ONLY for lookaround would add realism to the biplane experience. This way, one must "six" their opponent for a laser shot. Paintball shot?

The undisputed best player on Mars Explorer 1.9 (fly) sadly left the game because of the changes described above. He was a master of strategy and felt that easily dodging lasers via flight speed was the absolute ruin of the game. "RIP Mars Explorer" was his final forum comment years ago. And he was right, in some ways.
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/23 - 14:24 GMT
I see what you mean - I started playing heavily around when Mars 2 was released for the first time, so I never really experienced the gameplay you're describing. I'll have a play in the archived 1.9 versions, see what kind of speed we're looking at, and do my best to get the plane handling like the older buggy.
 
Also, the lookaround-only style would make it far harder for people to 'noob' with the plane (no sitting on the ground and firing up until they hit if they can't aim up).
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
1 day - 4,998v
Posted 2013/05/03 - 0:53 GMT
These are some awesome designs ACE!
I hope they get put into the game!
 
I think krunchers idea of only firing forward is a good one. 
 
-EDIT-
After playing the demo, I think that the planes should slide down (on the vertical axis) when you tip them sideways, because bipeplanes need a lot of lift, and when they don't have that, they don't maintain their altitude. Especially for the bigger one, because it is really heavy, and without its massive amount of lift, it would fall pretty fast. 
     This would make then really fun to pilot because you would have to bank when you turn, but not too much. Overall it's awesome though! I like the way they 'slide' when you turn funny.
 
Gub
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/05/03 - 9:20 GMT
Thanks! I'm really glad you like them
 
I see what you mean about the demo script... it should be easy to fix, I'll sort it when I get time.
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Re: Biplanes. Three of them.
22 minutes - 38v
Posted 2013/06/01 - 19:39 GMT
I love it.  They should put it in the game. Do you know why they haven't?

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